Welcome to the Community

Please choose one of the options below to log in and get stuck in!

Login with PPUK

Leadership

13»

Comments

  • I'm generally impressed with Dawud's responses in this thread. I'd say he should be seconded, does anyone object?
  • @dawudislam thank you for your replies

    Personally I find the majority of your answers agreeable - and where we disagree you seemingly can be reasonably-reasoned with in discussion.

    Perhaps it would be worth finding a Spokesperson role within the Party by contacting the current NEC, to show you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

    I think a lot of people like what they read but are hesitant to second a potential Leader of which they've never seen "in action".
  • Hi Drowz0r/Dan, To give people an idea here is my last campaign video when I ran on a joint RESPECT/TUSC ticket in the 2014 elections. I should explain that there was a misunderstanding about what would appear on the ballot paper. I had intended it to say Dawud Islam (known as Dave Edler) the latter to reflect the fact that a lot of people know me under my Equity name that I use for broadcast and journalism work. However as I was standing in a 90% Asian ward I also wanted my real name on the ballot. To cut a long story short only the Dave Edler name appeared on the ballot paper and we failed in efforts to get it changed as we were too late for the deadline once the mistake was realised. Hence why the video refers to me as Dave Edler only:

  • edited March 2016
    Alright, a couple of things I see there. For one, you look a lot like my old French teacher from school in Halifax :-P
    Secondly, I hope you're as comfortable if not more so, in a PPUK T-shirt as you are in a suit. Indeed, I do not know how many Pirates agree with me, but I see a suit as an off-putting uniform of the 20th Century and of the Business world, one which we really should be phasing out of use in the political sphere relating to the House of Commons - of the Common People.
    Thirdly, the matters you covered in that video had a high focus on what the other parties were doing wrong. I hope that when you appear on our behalf, you would instead focus more on the positives of the Pirates and only relate those to other parties' current positions in more passing, matter-of-fact ways.
    Also, trying to plea a sort of 'vote for me just this once' bargain can look desperate. That said, it worked for the SNP. But would you want to have us compared to their tactics for their 'meteoric' rise and fervour?
    That's just my twopennyworth. Let's see any other Pirates comment please?
  • Dear all,
    Use the term 'fascists' lightly, yes, there may be people of that ilk in UKIP or similar, but what is a fascist? I would put the hard left in the same camp, as the political full circle 'ends' meet where National Socialism {Fascism} 'joins' and becomes Socialism...My [small man] very well educated 'Labour' [and former PPC] neighbour and complete dominant over his [large] wife has gradually become evermore nasty towards me for my 'right' leanings, to the point of almost shouting at me last GE time to get his point across! He hates the SNP [he's Scottish by the way] and was devastated by Labour's wipeout there, of course. He dearly loves to talk politics over the garden fence so that he may tell me what's correct in his 'Guardian' world...That, I would argue, is a {left} fascist, something that Dawud [and others] need to understand [whilst he studies OU..!]. Fascists, as you call them, see themselves as 'Patriots'. That, you couldn't say, would be the same for Corbyn and co. Strangely enough though, as we approach the London Mayoral Election, I quite like 'gorgeous George' Galloway...is he a left 'fascist'? Does his friendship with Corbyn make him so..? I don't think so, but...

    Bluebird
  • A fascist is someone who cannot tolerate other opinions, points of view or particularly, people of other races, creeds, religions or sexualities. That lack of tolerance can crop up in a variety of authoritarian mindsets. You need to remember that the political spectrum is not one-dimensional, Bluebirds002, it is not just right versus left and maybe looped round to a circle, it's more a 2D plane between right, left, authoritarian and libertarian with the potential to loop round to a sphere. Even this does not cover all dimensions of political persuasions, but I believe it goes further than the traditional and incorrect purely right versus left rhetoric.
    This is why the USA is able to have two right wing parties vying for position in its upcoming election, for example. Americans mistake libertarian vs authoritarian for being left vs right.
  • Dear Dan,
    Thank you. That makes my fully-fledged Labour Panto neighbour an 'intellectual fascist' then! I suppose we should imagine that the political spectrum could even be a helix, with many interactions coming from all twisted angles {?}. I have been active in politics since 1990 [though interested since 1973] and have met many characters from all and sundry parties, some good, some bad. I have a simple test: the cup of tea test...Q. Would I invite my nextdoor 'int fasc' in for tea? A. No! Q. Would I invite 'gorgeous' George Galloway in for tea? A. Yes, with relish!
    Perhaps, if J Corbyn doesn't accept GG back into Labour, PP should invite him for Leader instead?!
    Bluebird
  • edited March 2016
    I'd have tea with Dawud, with Cris, with Loz, with Andrew Robinson, with Jeremy Corbyn, Nicola Sturgeon, green tea with Natalie Bennett (obviously) and I'd likely enjoy the lot of them. George Galloway for a cuppa and a chat? mmmm.... yes. Boris Johnson? Only if his tea has a lid. David Cameron? Hell no. Most of UKIP? Only to try and persuade them to change their points of view and I doubt it would work. And of course I'd have tea with you, Bluebirds002, if the opportunity arose.
    But George Galloway as a Pirate Party candidate for leader? Hmm...
    I'm warned by some of the other members here not to let the ex-pats of other political parties sail us into uncharted waters, but the question arises as to whether that is better than just sitting here in the doldrums.

    So how about you, Dawud? Who'd you have a cuppa with? Or is this getting far too silly a question?
  • Hi Dawud,
    I have a quick question about one of your comments further up. You refer to yourself as a "progressive" yet you're on record on social media posting images of the hammer and sickle, Leon Trotsky, Fidel Castro and various others. It seems you're trying to pull one over on us all. Are you just another Trotskyist trying to ride on Corbyn's wave?
    p.s what's with the change of twitter handle from socialistdawud to disruptordawud?
  • Dan, I believe in building bridges so I'm happy to sit down with anyone (nothwithstanding the earlier comments that I wouldn't shake hands with some of them) and I'll debate with anyone as I think that is the only chance to get anywhere. I'm still on good terms with George so I'd certainly have tea with him (he doesn't drink anything stronger!!) but I'm afraid I wouldn't vote for him as leader as his style of leadership is not commensurate with the collegiate nature of the PPUK. LuqmanY I admire a lot of political figures from history including (but not limited to) Lincoln, Hardie, Connolly, Gladtone, Keynes, Beveridge, Atlee, Marx, Trotsky, Mandela, Ghandi and from the modern era (Tony) Benn, Wilson, (John) Smith, Ashdown, (Charles) Kennedy and, yes, Corbyn. Up here I admire Sturgeon as a politician but not the actions of the SNP. I would have to say that all the current crop of Scottish political leaders are good (apart from David Coburn, UKIP) including Ruth Davidson (Conservative) who is widely admired even by her opponents.
  • Dear all,
    Thank you for taking on my 'tea with...' comment on board. It is a good indicator of thought patterns and 'alliances', and as LuqmanY has pointed out above [towards dawud], any of us could be '5th Columnists'! My leanings are definitely on the 'Right', though tea would still be possible with Nicola S, Loz [of course!], Nick Robinson {bbc} [met him on Westminster Bridge once doing an interview!], Boris J, Harold Wilson, Nye Bevan, Vladimir Putin [believe it or not!], Gladstone, Ted Heath [met him once at our 1997 GE count!], Dan Fox Davies, and, blah, blah, blah. Definitely NOT Nick Clegg, Corbyn, MacDonnell, Nat Bennett, Alex Salmond etc...they can all happily fall into the Thames and drift off!
    And Dan Fox is quite correct in saying that ex-pats would sail PP into uncharted waters, I myself am an 'ex-pat' [LibDems, UKIP, EngDems, Libertarian], though my 'vessel' {branch} is still tied up in the 'Pool [of London]', with little chance of sailing anywhere! It seems to me that only the very few are corresponding here, and there's been little dialogue since the 2015 GE. Tea anyone..?
  • Dawud,

    I won't be backing you for the leadership.

    There are numerous issues. What follows is just one of several dealbreakers for me. It's more than enough.

    PPUK has a broad political platform based on a core of digital rights. Any leader of the party (or other prominent spokesperson) needs to be able to talk knowledgeably and passionately about our core concerns around privacy, free culture, net neutrality, etc.

    And it follows that any prospective leader or spokesperson needs to have some background and track record on these issues. Simply agreeing with current party positions on digital rights isn't enough. People only learn about how these issues work through ongoing engagement with them. And it follows that someone who's really passionate about this agenda has spent some time in some kind of activism (whether personal or professional) in this area.

    I wouldn't want to be prescriptive about how precisely this needs to be done but it needs to be done. I accept that there could be (indeed, are) people new to the party who have gained this experience elsewhere, and as such, they could be credible and effective spokespeople for the party.

    But you haven't done that. What I find notable about your presentation here, and what I can discern about your background elsewhere, is a complete absence of any demonstrable interest in digital rights issues. In several decades of political activism you apparently haven't said a single word about any of our core issues until you started this thread here. And even then you needed to be prompted to express any view on digital rights, despite writing copiously about a whole raft of other things. It's like standing for the leadership of the Greens with no background in environmental activism.

    @LuqmanY made reference to your Twitter account, disruptordawud. Active since 31 Dec 2015 and not a single tweet about any of our core issues. There's a whole lot of other stuff about left-wing politics which members may or may not agree with, but it's as if digital rights doesn't exist for you. And this is at a time when there are several high-profile issues in this area that make it onto the front pages of mainstream news websites, not just raising concerns in niche activist circles.

    I'm not going to set one standard for you and another for other people. I'm looking for a leader that can hold their own in conversations about digital rights with knowledgeable people who live and breathe this stuff, as well as with people who don't share our concerns. I want to see real passion and genuine insight, not just a regurgitation of the party line.

    If you've recently become interested in digital rights, that's great. PPUK is a good way to learn more and get active on these issues. But the leadership of the party, or any other prominent public-facing role, isn't a good place for anyone to learn this stuff from scratch even if they're determined to do so. And you don't strike me as very interested, let alone determined, to make waves on digital rights.

    So I'm going to pass. We've got some temporary leadership from various board members. We really could do with a permanent leader and a whole NEC team but in the interim until we find someone with serious credibility I think we'll manage better with no leader than with someone who seems so far outside their comfort and interest zone.

    I'd like to make very clear that I speak only for myself, not for the party. Other members may well feel differently, which is precisely why we have open democratic elections for the senior party offices.


  • ThyPirateDaveThyPirateDave South Wales
    edited March 2016
    There is wisdom in what @adrianshort has said.

    When I started, copyright reform wasn't really my main concern - it was more around improving broadband, public wifi and some other pirate stuff but not the core policies.

    So I did some spokesperson stuff, wrote a load of blogs. Got featured in some external press (small blog stuff at first). Then I went for a position that wasn't immediately related to leadership, then ran in GE2015 before standing for Deputy Leader.

    Even then I felt on occasion my knowledge was insufficient and rested a lot on more seasoned NEC.

    I would recommend joining some meetings and taking up a spokesperson type role before going straight for Leader.
  • I can understand Adrian's views. I broadly agree in principle - yet at the same time I recognise if this is the standard we hold people to then we're probably not going to attract many of our members to the leadership positions. I say this with the assumption that many of our members will feel strongly about [core PPUK policy areas] but won't necessarily have ever been in a position where they have built a track PUBLIC record on them.

    That said where someone HAS got a very public record about their beliefs and hasn't ever covered our core issues - I accept how that can be a flag. Still there is scope to take people at face value. I am happy to believe that Dawud feels strongly and similarly to many of our members and I am willing to give him a chance.

    There is no point in immediately electing someone to a position - what we need is people doing stuff. If Dawud wants to lead us I say we led him lead in - in so far as ANY MEMBER can lead others by DOING.

    The Leader is the Party's primary spokesperson. They are often responsible for much of the content of website blog posts, press releases, as well as some of the administrative burden.

    Some members of the Board (inc. myself) are trying to carry that administrative burden. I would suggest, Dawud, that you could lead on the more interesting non-administrative stuff. There is a lot going on in core area right now which the Party isn't making enough fuss about. Please help us make that fuss :) (that goes for any and all other interested members).

    Any member can blog. I can promote to the front page any blog post if someone pings me a message to ask. It won't take very long for me to add people to a press team mailing list and our piratenpad where we draft press releases. Let me know to add you and you can start working on press releases and discussing with others on the press team list. I and some others can 'send out' those press releases so ping us when you want things reviewed (I am on press list so will usually see things there and try to take part in proofing etc).

    There is opportunity for anyone to develop their own track record here and now by doing the work the Party needs done. I will cast my vote, come NEC elections, for those who have put in the work and demonstrated they believe broadly along the same lines as I do :D
  • I accept the criticisms and would agree that I am not the 'ideal' leader for PPUK. If by throwing my hat into the ring the end result is that it prompts someone more qualified on the party's core agenda to put their head above the parapet then that would be the best outcome for everyone. However in my defence I would say that the 'crisis' e-mail suggested that leadership and direction were needed and they are two areas that I do have experience in, both in politics and in business. I could create a 'business plan' to get the party up and running into a period of development with membership growth, activism and contesting as many local elections as possible at the core of the strategy as well as implementing a fundraising plan to get us to two full-time staff as soon as possible, which I consider to be the absolute minimum number to effectively run a small political party effectively that can react to events with an immediate response. It is true, therefore, that what I have the most are 'process' skills that are transferable to almost any political situation and that has always been my strength. Although I am studying a degree in politics and international development I do not have an academic mind and so once I have determined that I agree with the 'broad strokes' of a party's policy agenda I leave it to others to develop the detail of that policy. Most of the criticisms are valid but the one that I would take issue with is that my lack of activism and in-depth knowledge of a subject area would not make me an effective communicator. As a broadcaster and journalist I have often had to be briefed on a subject that I know nothing about, often at less than an hours notice, and then ask an interviewee a series of in depth questions and talk about that subject in detail. I am certain that with detailed briefing I could definitely present digital rights policy as informed opinion. It is an area that I care about but not, I accept, to the degree that many on here do. You would have found a couple of tweets on the subject on my previous Twitter feed but I eventually took it down after years of trolling by the EDL during the period I was in RESPECT. There are only so many threats of physical harm you can take!!
  • edited March 2016
    Alright, so let's run you a scenario. You've been invited, as a leader of the trusted Pirate Party, to a meeting few would get a chance to be at in a lifetime; a chance to rub shoulders with Edward Snowden, Julian Assange (in this scenario, for the sake of the argument, let us assume the case against him in Sweden has finished collapsing), Chelsea Manning (presumably the meeting involves some sort of special dispensation, prior correspondence or interesting legal circumstantial changes), Jacob Appelbaum, Glenn Greenwald and Cory Doctorow. My inner (and outer) Pirate-geek self would have a certain noteworthy response to the chance to take part in such a situation and historic meeting of minds, but what would you think and how would you make the most of it?

    EDIT: and Birgitta Jónsdóttir. Because how could you not?
  • In reality you wouldn't be able to say a single word anyway because Glenn and Cory would be doing all the talking.
  • Thanks for your response to that criticism Dawud, but I'm afraid I have to push a little further.

    Firstly, the Leader would have to act as a spokesperson, but without the rest of the NEC in place (which we can't assume at this time) there would be little ability to give you press briefings before interviews. The only way that'd be practical would be if we had a full-time researcher. For the time being, it is far more helpful to have someone in this position that is actually well versed in the core Pirate issues and able to speak their own mind on these issues rather than having to rely on half-arsed briefings because we don't have the staff. This comes back to Adrian's original point where a candidate should have track record of activism and spokesmanship on Pirate issues. For those that have the knowledge and want to be a spokesman, they should take up Azrael's offer and blog and speak on the party's behalf, then run for Leader when they feel ready.

    Which brings me to the second point. If you believe that you would be able to come up with a "business plan" to get the party back on its feet with enough money to hire a few full-time employees, that would be most useful to the Party. Please get in touch with us so we can start discussing it. However, it's not really within the remit of what we want the person in the Leader positioni to carry out.

    I'm going to wrap my post up by saying that I agree with the previous few posts, and that at this current time, I don't personally feel I can back you as Leader, however I might be willing to back you to another NEC position, such as Party Secretary, where your business knowledge and "process skills" could be put to use to sort out the Party's administration.
  • Had a bit of trouble finding you on twitter Dawud, I was going to send you a message and hopefully start a bit of conversation. Only account I can find is @libdemhame from you?

    Are you no-longer interested in PPUK?
  • topperfalkon I accept what you are saying. I think the general mood is that any prospective leader should have a real 'hands on' knowledge and passion for digital rights and I am not really that person. As I said the main hope when I started this out was to prompt such a person to come forwards but I suppose most will not do so unless actively encouraged. The other purpose of the thread was to judge the 'mood music' of the party for a relative outsider to come in and again I think there is resistance to anyone without a strong digital rights agenda, and probably rightly so. I would of course be happy to share my thoughts on how the party could be reinvigorated and hopefully renewed as I think it genuinely offers something different to what is out there at the moment. I have been convinced, though, by the comments made that I am not the right person to take the party forward in a leadership role at this time. I would like to thank contributors to the thread for their largely measured and supportive comments and accept that any criticisms were made with PPUK's best interests in mind.

    Drowz0r, I had been writing a political blog called Lib Dem Hame on Wordpress which was covering liberal politics in general (lib dem, liberal party, libertarians) in Scotland but I took it down over Christmas as I wasn't happy with one or two things. I did have a twitter handle for it as well (only with about 30 followers!!). Yes I have also taken my main political twitter account down. I suppose like quite a few people these days I get fed up with twitter sporadically and have decided to take another break from it for a while.
  • Hi Dawud,

    Thanks for your reply, and I respect the way you've handled the feedback you've received and your conclusions based on that. Please do keep in touch with us if there are other ways you wish the help us.
  • I certainly will and I was impressed with the press release on the snoopers charter yesterday. Shocking display on that from both Labour and the SNP.
Sign In or Register to comment.